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in afghanistan, iraq and pakistan. while there is no immediate claim of responsibility, the u.s. officials say a handful of networks including an indian terrorist group may be behind the bombing. a senator with an intelligence background says the indian mujahadeen who want them to dominate the indian way of life is suspect. but they say the group is poorly organize and possibly had outside help, possibly from pakistani intelligence. >> with a dramatic attack like this, coordinated over three locations, it took money and it took planning. that always raises the speckor of the isi in pakistan. >> the three explosions at the mumbai opera house, jewelry district and major commuter hub drew comparisons to the mumbai attack in 2008. the ram pain that lasted for 60 hours killing 166 people was low-tech. it relied on ten pakistani militants armed with cell phone, handguns and back packs filled with explosives. the group l.e.t. linked to pakistani intelligence was blamed. >> the obvious question: is pakistan involved? i cannot think of any conceivable reason why pakistan would want to provoke a crisis
you, pat. the u.s. embassy under attack in syria. how is the united states responding? in pakistan they are burning our flags. and we are giving them millions. [ male announcer ] there's more barbeque time in every bag of kingsford charcoal. kingsford. slow down and grill. . >> our flag on fire, the u.s. embassy under attack as was the american ambassador's residence, people described as "thugs," reaching the wall of the embassy compound and breaking cameras and bonds and the united states is seeking compensation for the damage. meanwhile the united states announcing cutting back aid to pakistan. $800 million in military aid is being withheld after they decided to cancel vistas for 100 military trainers and my guest says the cuts are a good start. lieutenant colonel peters joins me. welcome. this is 40 percent of our annual aid to pakistan. should we retract the rest of it, as well? >>guest: i wish we could cut all aid to pakistan. pakistan is a rogue state. the pakistani military and security services are addicted to terror and we keep giving them money for another fix. but we can
pakistan didn't do enough, if much avenue anything to help find usama bin laden and maybe even protected him and this morning relations between that key u.s. ally and partner in the fight against terror, is standing on even shakier ground. a report this morning in the "new york times" says the u.s. could suspend a big chunk of military aid to pakistan. and it is a lot of our money, $800 million, in security assistance. peter doocy live in washington with the details. are we looking to cut off the military of pakistan completely? >> reporter: no, but, as you said, "new york times" is reporting that we might cut $800 million out of the 2-plus billion we give pakistan in security assistance and that is because the administration does not apparently think they are being helpful in catching militant and, probably because pakistan kicked 100 of our army trainers out of the country the last few weeks and it comes very very, shortly after the strain on the u.s. relationship which was exposed following our raid on their soil to kill bin laden and earlier this week the new secretary of defense, pa
laden's compound in pakistan and terror group is now within reach. david is live from kabul, afghanistan. >> reporter: the duly appointed defense secretary arrived here a few hours ago to find out for himself the situation on the ground here. he has brief talks with military officials including david petraeus and then he went straight into a meeting with the afghan president hamid karzai. their discussions included the transition of nato held areas of afghan control starting in july but also the drawdown of u.s. troops over the next year. he says he hopes to drive the taliban into peace talks over that period. he also said he was upbeat about prospects of defeating al-qaeda if they can capture and kill remaining leaders. >> i would say somewhere around 10 to 20 key leaders, between pakistan, yemen, so somalia and north africa, if we can go after them, i think we really can strategically defeat al-qaeda. >> he also said the targeting of leaders such as the al-qaeda chief ayman al-zawahri continues to limit their ability to conduct attacks. he may just go well over the border in pakistan's
to pakistan. >> right now, they've taken some steps that have given us reason to pause on some of the aid which we were giving to their military. >> and new tensions since the killing of usama bin laden as we keep 800 million dollars in our american pockets. and. and.... >> making america proud on the global stage. the u.s. soccer team triumphs over brazil at the women's world cup with a come from behind win. tonight, the thrilling action that propelled the red, white and blue to the semifinals. first, leon panetta making his first visit to iraq as the new u.s. secretary of defense. touching down in baghdad, after leaving afghanistan, we told you, forecast end could be near for al-qaeda and push iraqi leaders for the american forces in their country and the u.s. scheduled to withdraw all of the 46,000 troops by the end of the year, but ongoing security concerns now prompting new talk of keeping some u.s. experts in place. the highest ranking officer, mike mullen on a four day visit to china, voicing serious new concerns that disputes between china and neighbors may spark unforeseen confli
crying, it's going to be okay. martha: well, tension is mounting in pakistan. the united states has announced that it will withhold millions in military aid there. so the pakistani government sources unfazed by this apparent snub, but some diplomats are calling it, quote, an unwise move on the part of the united states. many experts now worry what this will mean for the already very stormy relationship between the united states and pakistan, especially in light of the bin laden capture and kill. conor powell joins me live from islamabad with the latest on that. hi, connor. >> reporter: well, hi, martha. well, to describe the afghan -- or the american/pakistan relationship as stormy is massively becoming a real understatement. it is down right poisonous and hostile at times now. for the last ten years or so, the united states has given about $20 billion to pakistan's military for the larger war on terror. this year alone they were meant to give $2 billion. but over the weekend the white house announced that it's withholding $800 million to the pakistani military. now, officially, the
million in military aide to pakistan. relations between the two countries took a major hit after u.s. forces killed osama bin laden in pakistan. that was back in may. those ties are on even shake yes, sir ground. peter doocy has more from washington. >> reporter: $800 million less. that is what pakistan is going to be getting us from military aide, getting shaved off the 2 plus billion, now the white house says is because they could be more helpful in rounding up terrorists and they gave hundred u.s. army trainers the boot in the last few weeks. >> obviously they have been an important ally but they have been a victim of enormous amounts of terrorism but they have taken steps that have given us reason to pause on some of the aid which we were given to their military. >> the communication breakdown regarding our raid on their soil to kill bin laden, some critics say maybe they knew there was all along. brand-new secretary of defense, l leon panetta says we don't know enough yet. >> everybody has suspicions about pakistanis, what they knew reality is their are investigations being co
the u.s. and pakistan have been even more tense since bin laden was killed. today, word tensions may have reached a new high. plus in the race for the white house, new hampshire, of course, a key stop. congressman with local roots will share his insight on which contenders could see success in his state. stay with us. [ mom ] one of the challenges for kayla being gluten-free is actually finding choices the whole family will love. five flavors of chex are gluten-free, including the honey nut flavor. and it's nice for me to be able to syes" to something that they want to eat. [ male announcer ] chex cereal. five flavor gluten free to something that they want to eat. funny thing about vegetables... they fill you up without filling you out. yes! v8 juice gives you three of your five daily servings of vegetables. that's what i'm talking about! v8. what's your number? a living, breathing intelligence that's helpi drive the future of business. in here, inventory can be taught to learn. ♪ machines have a voice. ♪ medical history follows you. it's the at&t network -- a network of possibil
terrorist through security. even with bin laden's debt at the compound in may, pakistan is the base for the al-qaeda core leadership, including ayad allawi the egyptian doctor who replaced the al-qaeda leader. pakistan's ability to track known and suspected terrorists is substandard. >> it is stunning that pakistan which is supposed to be our ally in the war against terrorism does not even share finger print data within the own government. >> while information sharing and passport security improved in the u.s., former homeland security official says the disparity overseas remains a serious problem. >> the travel documents are the same as weapons, terrorists that can't carry off the plot without them. if i give us a grade abroad with the partners, some of is it out of our control, we're probably closer to a "c." >> some former intelligence officials say the u.s. should use leverage to encourage standards. for some nations it's resource problems. for otherssh it's refusal to cooperate. >> bret: thank you. the speaker of the house joins me live in studio exclusively after the break. [
pakistan a strong message >> the pakistani relationship is difficult but it must be made to work overtime. but until we get through these difficulties, we will hold back some of the many that the american taxpayers have committed to give. >> some $800 million? >> yep. >> it's a lot of cash but is it a political move. our next guest called out the pakistani government in 2006 claiming they knew osama bin laden in's location. peter thompson joins me. he's the author of the new book "the wars of afghanistan." good to see you. >> thank you. >> i want to get your thoughts we reported that the half-brother of huh mean karzai in afghanistan has been assassinated. how does that affect the relationships? >> he was assassinated by the taliban. this reflects assistmatic policy of the taliban and their isi handlers, the intelligence organization is i think behind this as well. and also al-qaeda. this policy is a tool to eliminate real and potential enemies of the islamists they want to reimplant back in cob he will. >> so this is a blow to the u.s. in afghanistan? >> yes, and also the destabilization
in pakistan. >> dave: they believe the head of al-qaeda is in pakistan al sar zawahiri. they said they're not happy with their actions and-- >> they're ratting us out when we go to the leaders. >> dave: they've kicked out military trainers. >> mike: it's hard to give money to people, maybe a segment of the pakistan military was harboring osama bin laden for goodness sake. >> ainsley: time for the headlines. two tennessee national guard members are dead after their helicopter goes down. the chopper crashed during a routine training flight. the chopper hit power lines on the way down, knocking out power to thousands of residents there as well. no word yet on the cause. the pilots were in an oh-58-d kiowa helicopter the subject of a lawsuit allegedly, alleging a faulty control system and fighter jets intercept two civilian planes near camp david where president obama is staying. it happened at separate times. both planes were escorted to nearby airports and they say the first plane had been out of radio communication. no word why the cessna got so close. the third time this month that pla
the remaining leaders. >> somewhere around 10 to 20 key leaders that between pakistan, yemen, somalia, aqim and north africa, those are -- if we can go after them, i think we really can strategically defeat al-qaeda. >> he also said the targeting of leaders such as the new al-qaeda chief continues to limit their ability to conduct attacks. he said he believes the al-qaeda leader may well be just over the border in pakistan's northwestern tribal areas. and general petraeus, who leaves his post here this month to head the c.i.a., also said today, al-qaeda was on the run, in his opinion. enormous damage is being done to the al-qaeda network over the border in pakistan. back to you. >> rick: david piper on the phone from kabul for us. thanks for the update. >> rick: getting the royal treatment, a polo club in california hosting a future king, prince william is taking part in a charity polo match right now and his new bride, the duchess of cambridge is on hand cheering him on. the royal couple mingling with hollywood royalty on their trip to the u.s. casey stegall live in santa barbara. who is a
the truth is that al-qaida's hierarchy in afghanistan and pakistan that he's referring to has been severely weakened. we've seen several al-qaida leaders killed over the past ewu months and years. to say al-qaida's hierarchy has been weakened and could possibly be defeated is true. but al-qaida has shifted to yemen, to somalia and also the al-qaida movement. it's become such a global galvanizing movement, brian. you have self-starters here in america, in england who are acting on their own with no direct link to al-qaida so you can defeat al-qaida, yes, but the movement that al-qaida has sparked, the ideology is the real problem here and brian, real quick, this administration when they talk about the war on terror, the war against radical islam, they have tunnel vision! al-qaida is only one element of a much broader enemy, iran, hezbollah and the muslim brotherhood which this administration wants to reach out to. >> which is a little crazy. tell us about this bomb throw, we'll talk about this a little bit later as well. tell about the next move is sewing these explosive devices into people'
. taliban, elements in pakistan use governmental power to support terrorism by muslims. left wing press wants to compare nuts like breivik and mcvey to state sponsored terrorism and worldwide jihad. again, dishonest and insane. the second reason the ricial media is pushing the christian angle is they don't like christians very much because we are too judgmental. many christians oppose abortion. gay marriage, and legalized narcotics. secular left causes. the media understands the often based on religion. they want to diminish christianity and highlighting so-called christian-based terror is a way to do that. the primary threat to this world comes from islamic terrorism. iran is a major problem. if the country gets nuclear weapons and it's desperately frying to. does anyone doubt those weapons would be used. a muslim in pakistan exported nuclear technology to north korea. and muslim suicide bombers below innocent people up almost every day. yet, once again the liberal media wants you to fear christian terrorists going forward when jihad is mentioned, you know breivik and mcvey will enter
of deteriorating relations between the u.s. and pakistan. the pakinstani government now banning u.s. diplomats from leaving the capitol city without getting special permission first. the announcement made in a letter sent to the u.s. embassy in islamabad, the 1961 agreement allows them to move freely. the u.s. is working with pakistan to try to resolve this issue. >> arthel: a texas gun store's phone has been ringing off the hook since some quick thinking employees likely prevented a deadly attack. greg ebert of guns galore called police to report a suspicious customer last week. that customer was arrested the very next day, just miles from the fort hood army base with materials that could be used to make bombs. ever since, he and his co-workers have been getting inundated with phone calls, thanking them for their vigilance. guns galore is the same shop where nidal malik hasan purchased a weapon before opening fire on fort hood in 2009. >>> a gun heist in california, more than two dozen assault rifles ripped off from a supply store in fort irwin. it happened july 15. investigators say the thieves m
east of afghanistan. near the mountainous bored of pakistan. helicopters -- mountainous border of pakistan. the army range jerusalem target i --notice rangers. their target is an insurgents compound. the insurgents are heavily armed. intelligence indicates that a top al qaeda commander is in that compound. soon the helicopters touch down. and our rangers immediately come under fire. within minutes leroy, then a staff sergeant, and another soldier are pushing ahead into a court yard surround by high mud walls. and that's when the enemy opens up with their ak-47s. leroy is hit in both legs. he's bleeding badly. but he summons the strength to leave the other ranger to cover behind the chicken coop. he raidees for supports. he hurls a grenade at the enemy, giving cover to a third ranger to rushes to their aid. an enemy grenade explodes near by, wounding leroy's two comrades. then a second grenade lands. this time only a few feet away. every human impulse would tell someone to turn away. every soldier is trained to seek cover. that's what sergeants leroy petry could have done. inste
bin laden, we've now identified some of the key leadership within al-qaeda, both in pakistan, as well as in yemen and other areas. that if we can be successful at going after them, i think we can really undermine their ability. heather: all right. well, you heard it there. are we really that close to wiping out al-qaeda? let's ask peter brooks, a senior fellow for national security affairs at the hurtarg foundation and a former cia officer, he joins us live from washington. good morning peter. >> good morning, heather. heather: what do you think about that assessment, do you agree with it? >> i certainly hope he's right. i'm not sure what he's basing it on. i think what they've done here is they believe they're on the verge of strategically de feeding al-qaeda because they've gotten rid of bin laden, they have to get rid of zawahiri and they have ten, 20 other leaders they believe they will be able to target in pakistan, somalia, the other country he didn't mention, so i hope he knows something i don't know but what i worry about, this may have two backdrops to it. one, it could make
korea, poland and france really likes us. they really like us. turkey, pakistan, egypt, jordan, argentina, mexico, don't like us very much. you know what? too bad. that is reality check. pinheads and patriots starring derek jeeter doing the amazing up next. @ . >> bill: pinheads and patriots in a moment, starring derek jeter and the guy who caught his big hit. >> but first, billoreilly.com has again mad, insane. summer sale offering 20% off the already discounted prices. monthly premium members get 10%. this applies tote navy seals 1, bin laden 0 t-shirts. we've sole 25,000. my book pinheads and patriots hundreds of thousands of those have been purchased by you guys, i appreciate it. stock up for gift-giving throughout the year. the sale is in motion, please check it out. >> now the mail: >> bill: i disagree alex. pathology of not reporting your 2-year-old missing cannot be overstated. this is an irrational, brutal act. you don't come back from something like that, especially when you claim innocence. >> bill: i wouldn't call the jury ignorant, not fair. they needed to focus. t
. four suspected u.s. drone strikes in northwestern pakistan killed at least 42 alleged militants in less than 12 hours. the attacks come at a time when relations between the united states and pakistan are especially strained. if you haven't noticed. the white house just cut $800 million in aid to pakistan's military. >> special wake-up for the crews of the shuttle at the international space station. >> ♪ rocket man i'm burning out of ♪ >> good morning, atlantis! this is elton john. we wish you much success on your mission and a huge thank you to all the men and women at nasa who worked on the shuttle for the last three decades. >> good morning, houston. elton john. he's a legend. wow. that is absolutely fantastic. >> "rocket man" is a popular wake-up song for nasa used three times before. they are taking supplies to the space station. >> i wonder if roger clemens will use that in his trial today. friends and relatives of a murder victim attacking a suspect in the courthouse hallway. things got so out of control, as you see, officers had to use tasers. the video was released after
. pakistan is a good example of a country where information sharing among known and suspected terrorists is still lacking. >> it is stunning that pakistan, which is supposed to be our ally in the war against terrorism, does not even share fingerprint data within its own government. it doesn't share it with other pakistanis -- pakistani law enforcement agencies. that's a real problem. >> reporter: so the bottom line is that we can pour billions of dollars into our airport security but the overall system, of course, is only as good as the weakest link, gregg. gregg: the senator said this issue is more now. what has changed in that regard? >> >> reporter: let's take the example of the underwear bomber, it's a good example of a foreign national, in this case a nigerian, who came through yemen and on to amsterdam before he boarded a flight on christmas day in 2009, the american cleric, anwar al-awlaki, the first american on the kill or capture list was the first man there, abdulmutallab, and the bomb maker. >> the threat is far more diverge than it was -- diverse than it was a decade ago. now
and talked about, we're not worried about the al qaeda in pakistan because of the death of bin laden though we can't write off ayman al-zawahiri, the new leader of al qaeda in the pakistani tribal areas but he's worried about yemen and al qaeda in the arabian peninsula and also, somalia, across the waterways there where you have al-shabab. so, al qaeda has been morphing for quite some time, since 9/11 and i think he's saying the threats are moving in that direction and that he thinks and the administration believes that al qaeda, the one we think of from 9/11 purposes, usama bin laden and ayman al-zawahiri, may be on its death bed. alisyn: and how, in this new 2.0 version, how much of a threat is anwar al-awlaki. >> he's dangerous, he was here in the u.s. on 9/11 and left the u.s. and went to yemen and, is responsible probably for at least three major attacks or plots in the u.s., including the detroit under wear bombing. including the fort hood assaults, attacks and the ink cartridge capers, where they tried to modify ink printer cartridges as bombs and is considered probably the most dang
are spending significant money. shall we send that $700 million to pakistan? alisyn: i thought you guys just said that you two could work it out because you're reasonable, so what is going on here, dick harpootlian and brad blakeman we'll have you back soon to see if we can hammer out an agreement then. it's already bad news for farmers and a worry for consumers. today we are hearing that a brutal drought could become the new normal of millions of americans. we'll show you why in three minutes. this epic protest a year ago led to all sorts of questions about the tactics being used by some public employee unions. now some of those questions are being answered, as we get our first look at the actual game plan behind this. and casey anthony is out of jail, but where did she go? answers just three minutes away. >> she is gone, she is safe andee lab brat plans had to be made to keep the people away from her. her life is going to be very difficult for a very longtime, as long as there are so many people of a lynch mob mentality. so how about this weekend we learn some new tricks of the trade... th
certainly hurt the al-qaeda terrorist organization, in pakistan and afghanistan. but anwar al-awlaki is alive and well in yemen and he is planning additional attacks against americans. is the franchise there now the lead in al-qaeda and how dangerous and what can we do? >> al-qaeda is somewhat diffuse in the islamist most of the time. yemen a fertile ground. it does seem to be emerging as headquarters of sorts. yemen as a state doesn't exist right now. it was an iffy topic when it had a president but it essentially doesn't right now. so al-qaeda finding an open door. president obama came out and said the tide of war is receding but nobody gave that message to the islamist terrorists. we this had the christmas day bombing, not the one on the flight but the on other one on fed ex shipments. >> gregg: speaking of terrorists let's talk about libya and moammar khadafy who says he is willing to talk to america but he refuses to give up his position. so what is the point of talking to the guy? >> this has been going for five months. people have said that khadafy is losing or close to
violence erupting in pakistan, gunmen in the streets of karachi, opening fire, leaving seven dead and more than two dozen injured. >>> dozens of suspects connected to the mexican mafia in custody after a huge gang raid in california. the mexican mafia, considered the oldest and most powerful prison gang in the u.s. >>> astronauts on board atlantis, international space station as well, getting their morning wake-up call today. listen to this: >> ♪ >> ♪ if you believed. >> ♪ >> ♪ they put a man on the moon. >> ♪ >> ♪ good morning atlantis! this is michael stripe from r.e.m. we wish you much success on your mission and thank all the women and men at nasa who have worked on shuttle for three decades, from earth, a very good morning to you. >> ♪ >> ♪ >> ♪ >> ♪ bill: how cool is that, huh? sir elton yesterday did that. martha: wouldn't that be cool, wake up up every morning and give you a call? >> bill: we're going to talk to them next week and let you know how -- know how they're doing on the last mission. so stay tuned for that. martha: and in court, we are getting reports
-level officials within al qaeda and obviously this drone campaign been ongoing in pakistan and some cases yemen, we've taken out something like 1200 fighters from al qaeda including senior leaders. jon: right. >> this is all good news. but again the ideology of radical islam lives on and so do these affiliate groups. that is the challenge ahead of us. jon: if you take out those leaders, and we have been very successful in doing that, if you take out people who have experience going back to the russian-afghan war, take out the people who know how to motivate and organization and maybe build a bomb be, pretty soon you're left with bunch of 18, 20-year-old kids who may have the desire but don't necessarily have the knowledge to continue terrorism campaign? >> well, you know i think you could make that argument but you could also argue you have a number of people who gained experience in afghanistan. people who have gained experience and by the way, fighting in this more recent war, not in the war in the 1980s against the soviets. but rather fighting against the united states and allied forces. you
-qaida operatives still plot and plan across the border in pakistan. the taliban still try to regain lost ground, still intimidate and still assassinate as we just saw this past week about the brutal killing of president karzai's brother. hamid karzai trying to climb into his brother's grave last week is facing almost daily challenges to his rule. his brother was assassinated by a trusted bodyguard. a former governor and loyal political adviser to karzai was assassinate ned his apartment by two taliban gunman wearing bomb belts. >> in crushing heat and in numbing cold from the deserts of southern afghanistan to the peaks of the behind due kush. you have shown initiative, determination, innovative necessary and courage. you have been diplomats as well as warriors, statesman as well as soldiers. your performance as been in a word awesome. >> reporter: general petraeus handed over his command to marine general john allen. petraeus will retire from the army and particular over as the head of the cia in september. >> there will be tough days ahead. and i have no illusions about the challenges we will
and pakistan and officials at the iranian mission in new york are calling the allegations totally baseless. and, our next guest, see if he agrees, ambassador john bolton, former u.n. ambassador and a fox news contributor. baseless or not. >> good morning to you, this is something many people have felt was going on for some time and the treasury department's own announcement says they can track iran's assistance to al qaeda back for five years, and i suspect it went on longer than that and, it has a dramatic effect, i think, on what we are all talking about, today, as we look at this debt ceiling issue. you had al milladmiral mullen o with the troops in afghanistan and, with the efforts in afghanistan, and to see the full efforts and larger defense budget now at risk in these debt ceiling talks, i find it absolutely unbelievable. >> let's talk more about that timing, again, the first time our country has formally accused iran of this, and as you said, rightfully so, this is rumored for years, what do you make of the timing? >> well, i think this is probably something driven by internal treasury
, napolitano, but voltaire! >> bill: watch the judge on "freedom watch", # pakistan eastern time. alisyn: let's check in with jon scott for what's coming up on "happening now. jon: thank you, a massive dust cloud swallows a major u.s. city, crippling travel, knocking out power. what's behind this monster storm? >>> plus a frightening new warning for u.s. airlines, terrorists, having trouble getting people to carry bombs outside the body, might try to put them inside a body to take down a jetliner. >>> and imagine living to be more than 100 years old. how about living to be 1000? researchers say that reality is actually closer than you might think. we'll see you at the top of the hour. alisyn. alisyn: good stuff, jon, thank you very much. >>> well, he's leading all republican candidates in the polls and the pocketbook. mitt romney, far and away the fundraising champ of the 2012 season thus far. but does that mean he's going to win the nomination? we are live, looking at that from the nation's capitol. bill: we have dramatic videotape of a severe rain storm trap ago man under a bridge, check it
, israel, indonesia and pakistan. interestingly enough, 75% of people in egypt said arabs not responsible for 9/11. >> should we cue up some bin laden tapes where he's admitting the entire thing or khali shaikh mohammed talking about how the plot was put together or the video confessions of those suicide -- of the suicide terrorists before they died? i mean, would that help? that's not even a tough question. >> it isn't a tough question. >> yet the disconnect continues to be there. we always hear that, it makes no sense obviously to us here. meanwhile, let's get to your headlines. >> we will indeed. defense lawyers plan to present an insanity defense today in the arkansas murder trial of abdul akim muhammad accused of killing one soldier and wounding another outside an army recruiting station in little rock. muhammad insists he's not insane and claims his actions were justified by the quran. >> a texas man who was kidnapped has been found dead in mexico. police say he was murdered after his family could not pay a $10,000 ransom. he worked as a federal court interpreter in el paso and was
Search Results 0 to 32 of about 33 (some duplicates have been removed)